By CECILIA EKLUND
Published: December 15, 2009
The New York Times correspondent Cecilia Eklund sat down with the Director and Deputy Director of Greenpeace to hear a side of the story from a seeming impartial delegation present at the upcoming convention.
What has to happen between the Copenhagen Climate Convention and the G8 Summit, 2010?
Rosemary Forsyth, Director of Greenpeace: We really expect to see concrete commitments from all the member states because one of our main caveats is that it is legally binding. We need to work on their emission reductions and this needs to be evidenced by the time we get to the G8 because we need this political momentum to galvanize people to actually commit to their targets. We will particularly be looking to the US and China in regards to this, especially because multilateral cooperation is so important. It’s really sort of following up on research and development, into renewables and phasing out coal and nuclear and reducing emissions at the cuts that we have suggested in our statement: 40% for developed countries and between 15-30% for developing countries by 2020.
Ralph Swann, Deputy Director of Greenpeace: It is just pertinent to note that the danger of failure, the risk of failure is too high, it’s something that the people, throughout the world, in developed and developing countries can’t afford to see happen.
What have you to say in relation to the threats to security by climate change, if I provide three ‘aspects’ of discussion: targets, funds, engagement of developing countries?
Rosemary Forsythe: Well, first of all, in terms of funds we’ve noted that there’s been progress with Gordon brown’s pledging 50 billion pounds, I think it is, towards an initiative to aid developing countries in terms of mitigation and adaptation and technology transfer, which I think is really key in aiding developing countries to be at equal footing with developed countries and we can embrace green technology, especially as I think a report suggested that there could be danger of 90 % future growth of emissions from developing countries if they are not provided with the adequate resources to be able to make this transition.
There is also a separate fund, a special climate change fund that BBC has issued a report on, it does worry us that a lot of money that seems to be missing. What has been recorded, $269 million in September, there should have been $287 million – I do not think it has been expressly stated what are the main purposes for this fund, I think more money should be earmarked for developing countries because there seems to be a backlash from developing countries feeling that they have not been adequately supported, the Least Developed Country Fund, under the framework for the climate convention change is notoriously underutilized, so I think we would need to focus on that. There is a need for fiscal stimulus; we have to compensate the developing countries. There is this issue of historical responsibility from the industrialized nations and it is a combined effort because otherwise we are just going to end up coming into contact with these run-away effects of climate change – devastation. Hooked onto that, meeting targets is really essential because if we can’t contain these rising temperatures through reductions of emissions, if we surpass this two-degrees increase threshold that is when we are really going to see the future wreaking its revenge in terms of drought, killer heat waves, and just general devastation and threats to human security and global security as well. Things like scarcity of resources, food security, ecological security, water security and this has a world-wide impact and that is really important to target and I guess that is all underpinned by the engagement of developing countries – we really need them on site and they really need to be compensated at the same time. China, as perhaps the top tier of the developing countries has a huge role to play in turning the future to green technology and phasing out coal and nuclear [technology].
To elaborate on that, how is Greenpeace operating – how are departments within Greenpeace taking on working with developed countries on climate change as opposed to their approach to developing countries, which you will be more lenient with…though they are arguably the first to be negatively affected by climate change?
Rosemary Foresyth: Yes, well we have recognized as a global organization that Greenpeace is that I believe it is up to 80% of the effects of climate change are experienced by those that ‘put out’ the least, i.e. the developing countries, so we really advocate support of the developing countries and in turn we are trying to apply as much political pressure on key member states and industrialized nations that are historically responsible for the anthropogenic emissions that have brought us in to this state of play that we are in at the moment.
Ralph Swann: Yes, I think one of the more simple facts demonstrates quite well that there is a huge responsibility on the developed world to take a lead on climate change issues, per capita emissions. There is a quite a clear indication that the developed world should take the initiative on tackling climate change and support the developing world in reducing their emissions but also in technology transfers and increasing efficiency.
Does Greenpeace have any sub-levels (of sorts) of interaction with developing countries to get them to ‘join in the fight’?
Ralph Swann: The global campaign is focused on reducing reliance on fossil fuels and that is, in terms of efficient production energy, efficient use of energy – whether we take a different attitude with developing countries as opposed to developing, I would say personally our campaign is more strongly based on bringing the whole world into the framework of more efficient use of reductive energy – that has different impacts on different countries around the world and will have to impact on the less developed than on the more developed countries but I would not say we differ in terms of our aims, our aims are clear and how they impact on different countries may vary.
Rosemary Foresyth: I second that opinion. We are heading for a future for all and all future generations and compensating these developing nations, this is at the forefront of one’s mind but implementing these universal initiatives to have a more equitable share in our finite resources – mitigation and technology transfer.
What have you to say about the ‘cap and trade’ trend and what is Greenpeace’s stance towards this somewhat controversial ‘solution’?
Rosemary Foresyth – We have made a comment previously about the Waxman-Markey bill that has been passed through congress which was spearheaded by Obama, I believe, and which actually ties into their new statement of reducing emissions by 17-20 % (as far as I am aware this is by a 2005 level) and they will reach 80% by 2050. Ralph Swann- Using the trend of ‘cap and trade’ as per the legislation. Rosemary Foresyth – I think they are trying to compensate the smaller companies. Because, say that this is a step in the right direction and there is a need for legislative framework to help foster economic growth but also implement a fair system so that it is not susceptible to be overridden. At the same time it is not strong enough, we need to advocate a much stronger response.
Cecilia Eklund later caught up with the two Greenpeace heads for further inquiries, towards which Greenpeace had much to add. Please read back shortly.